LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

petej
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LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby petej » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:56 pm

Hello,

I'm new to LP. I've been using MRSG and UAD Apollo for long time (before LP even came out).

Now I think it's the time to switch to LP2 for two reasons:

- I think I can combine the 2 "surfaces" (UAD Console and MultiRack) into one powerful (Liveprofessor)
- LP2 gives me the ability to use beloved PlugIns I use in studio, I never could've uses live till now (like Eventide and SoundToys).

With the UAD it's quite simple: connect UAD Apollo and insert plugin into a chain and that's it.

With Waves I thought I could use StudioRack as it's normally used to offload PlugIns in DAW to a SoundGrid Server. I get it working, but when I offload a plugin to SoundGrid server LP2 reports me a delay increased by 70ms compared to the letting it run native (in StudioRack you can switch from SG to native, when I do this, the reported delay increases by 70ms). What's going wrong? This isn't the case, when I use StudioRack in ProTools or Logic nor is the latency as high when I do the same with Multirack.

Did anybody try this before and found a solution. And no: running it completely native isn't what I'm looking for!

Regards Peter
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nikolai
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby nikolai » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:50 am

Hi
This setup is something I have been wanting to test for a while, but I have not got a SG server (yet)
Are you sure that there is a actually a 70ms delay, and not just a display error?
The value is reported by the plugin, so it's hard to say why it would do this.
I guess someone with a SG server has more useful info then me.
petej
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby petej » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:36 pm

Hi Nicolai,


I'm in preparation of a tour, so I tested it with my MacBook Pro which had a UAD Apollo Twin and a SG Server connected (but actually no console with Waves I/O as it will be on the touring setup).

So the numbers reported were around 1.5ms with Waves StudioRack set to native and 71.5ms with Waves StudioRack set to SG mode (where all plugins are offloaded in the SG Server).

I have to say, that until now I didn't use StudioRack, as I normally use MultiRack SoundGrid, so I'm not sure if I made a mistake in configuration. But as far as I can see, I had the network buffer down, but even with worst case a buffer set to 256 samples it should have bin not more than 5ms extra delay.

My idea behind using StudioRack is, that it theoretically can use the same "power" of the SG Server, but with the big advantage of using it with different other plugins I love and a much more powerful Cue-System and MIDI-feature that LP2 delivers.

I had 2-3 shows using LP2 purely native (which worked really good) but on this tour I will have excessive amount of plugins, that's why I tend to use SG server instead of native.

So I hope it isn't a issue in principle and can be fixed at some point (even I guess there will be no solution for my tour as we start rehearing on sunday ....).

Regards Peter
petej
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby petej » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:29 pm

... i made some additional test.

I made the pretty much same setup but with ProTools native (as this reports delay in exact sample values).

So I made to audio tracks, inserted StudioRack in one.
Then I inserted C6 in StudioRack and also directly into the second audio track. As long as I have StudioRack running on native mode both channels report the same delay of 64 samples.

When I switch to SG mode on StudioRack it reports 99 samples delay, which is 35 samples delay from SG processing buffer (set to 40samples).

Btw. it's the same number if I switch an empty StudioRack to SG mode - it shows 35 samples delay.

So the number of 71.5 ms delay shown in LP2 is obviously not a general issue of SG procession with StudioRack.

Regards Peter
petej
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby petej » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:53 pm

... i made some screenshots in LP2, but I cannot upload them. How much is the file size?


Regards Peter
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nikolai
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby nikolai » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:35 pm

... i made some screenshots in LP2, but I cannot upload them. How much is the file size?
Not sure if image upload works, I usually just dropbox, you can email to me at nikolai@audiostrom.com.
One thing, does it make any difference if you use VST/AU version of the plugin in LiveProfessor ?
robiwan
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby robiwan » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Same issue here, following :)
petej
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby petej » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:00 am

I've been on production today, but I'll send you a dropbox link with the screenshots.

I just used AU. To be honest I'm not sure if I have installed (all) VST versions at all (there are few for sure). So I'll try that tomorrow too.

cheers
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nikolai
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby nikolai » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:43 pm

Good, I have just ordered a Sound Grid Server to test with.
Maybe I can figure it out together with Waves
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nikolai
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby nikolai » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:28 pm

Got some news on this today.
So I hooked up a Impact server, and tested.
At 48K I got an added 74 samples added latency like you guys.
I then asked waves support about this and they confirmed that the sound grid-connect server/system adds a buffer of 3552 samples.
Case closed, it is like this by design. 3552 samples / 48 = 74 ms, so that makes sense.
So at best you could run at 96 and get 3552/96 = 37 ms
This latency comes on top of what ever buffer size your sound device runs at.
Pitty, was a good idea, If anyone wants a cheep sound grid server let me know
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nikolai
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby nikolai » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:37 am

Update, waves points out that this is not the case if using sound grid IO, only when using core audio / asio devices that connect to the sound grid enviroment.
When using sound grid IO (like a sound grid card on a mixer I guess) latency between the server should go down to 40 samples
mlcook19
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby mlcook19 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:17 am

Hey Nikolai, if you ever have the opportunity to test your impact server or waves setup with a Waves MGO, I'd be curious if LP will function properly with the MGO driver that allows it to be used as IO.
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nikolai
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby nikolai » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:56 pm

Not sure how you would use the Waves MGO. Is that not just a MADI to/from sound gird box ? where does the asio/core audio come in to play?
Waves support would be able to tell you though.
Here is what they told me:
Just clarifying that if the users will add a SoundGrid I/O (in addition to the SG server) they will be able to enjoy the low latency of 40 samples - less than 1ms from StudioRack to the server and back.
mlcook19
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby mlcook19 » Wed May 02, 2018 3:20 pm

Basically, I want to use the MGO/MGB as the IO to transport audio from a Madi port on a live console into a PC. Waves has a Soundgrid driver you install with the MGO/MGB that allows you to use it as a soundcard, but LP freaks out when you select it as your audio device.

The signal flow id like to use is:

SSL L200 Madi -> Waves MGO/MGB (converting from Madi to Soundgrid) -> PC and then back.
petej
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Re: LP2 using Waves StudioRack/SG Server

Postby petej » Fri May 11, 2018 2:01 pm

Hi,

bit confusing to me, because:

the same setup used in ProTools makes 36 Samples Latency (around 0.8ms). As soon I do it in LP2 it's the 72ms (or 74ms as reported here).

For me this makes absolute no sense, assuming that ProTools must be a similar "host" to SoundGrid Studio Rack PlugIn as LP2 is. Also SoundGrid Rack is meant to be a low latency Option for recording Tracks with PlugIns, which won#t be able with a 74ms latency by design.

As Nikolai said:it's an "issue" with SoundGrid Connect, but I DON'T use SoundGrid connect, as I'm using a SoundGrid device (in my case an DiGiCo SD9 Core2 with an Waves I/O). SoundGrid Connect is a driver that is meant to integrate Non-SoundGrid audio devices into a SoundGrid network.
Also: if I use the UAD Apollo it is also "just" a plugin-dsp for LP2 (so I can also use my UAD stuff besides Waves), so still there's no SoundGrid connect involved as I don't use the Apollo as I/O to the SoundGrid network.

Assuming: I still don't get it, why the same setting (using UAD and Waves SoundGrid PlugIns via SoundGrid Studio Rack) in ProTools gives me a 0.8ms latency and as soon I do this in LP2 I get the 74ms (which shall be caused by SoundGrid connect, which I don't use ...)?

Sonne ideas?

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